So when you select your class, you will have to face consequences as if you pick one type of class eg the templar, then certain skill trees will become unavailable to you. This is problematic for me, as when I play Skyrim and Oblivion, I really aimed to have all my skill trees at lvl 100 and it seems I won't be able to do that this time around, maybe with alternative characters, but never all on the same on. How do you guys feel about this?
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Skill tree cut offs
- Thread starter andrew172
- Start date
SpaceTiger
New Member
Some sort of cap would've been nice in this case, but I can see why it's being implemented to cut out overpowered players early in. Who knows, they might unlock some skill trees in later updates or something.
desarijulian
New Member
I'm okay with it. I mean I get why their doing it, to prevent people from becoming to powerful too quickly and overpowering other players. Some people just have more time to sit at home and play the game I guess. I doubt that the cut-offs will last all that long or if it's something that they plan on doing throughout the games life-span. I want to know more about it.
Stuck_X_Button
New Member
Yeah locking skill trees off will prevent OP characters. It'll be lifted and run rampant once the game goes F2P and they get back to focusing on their main series.
Some good points raise, I can see now why there would be good sense in doing this. Many players of the game will be new to MMOs as they will mainly have just played on consoles in the past, so mixing newbies and pros to mmos would require som sort of restriction put in place I suppose.
Tomba
New Member
I think some sort of pre-game survey would've been cool to help determine what skill trees are closed, which are open, and which are capped. Like sure you're an assassin, but what kind of assassin are you? Factors such as class compatibility with certain classes/class families should be considered.
Legendoflore
New Member
That might have been interesting if they did that. In the end I'm okay with the skill trees being cut off, it won't be forever and it'll make sure that players still on an even playing field for a while. I know that I don't have as much time as I used to to sink hours into elder scrolls during launch so having some more time makes me more inclined to pick up the game.
This could work, but at the same time it also couldn't work. It could because, then we could tell them what we want. It may not work because, well... most people who will be getting the game, won't be voting because they're too casual of a gamer demographic to go researching the game before they buy it. That just the truth. Most people don't look online at a game before they buy it, they just buy it (this of course doesn't apply to us). So you would end up with survey results which don't represent what the fan base as a whole wants. I suppose it's one of those things that would just have to happen before w could determine the effectiveness of it.
SpaceTiger
New Member
I think he meant the pre-game "survey" like in Dragon Quest V, Mount & Blade, and some other games where they go through your character's life and background and offer like three or so answers to that question with all of them going to what makes your character (or say how your skill tree would branch).
Also, I don't casual gamers are the bulk of the ones picking this up. Like not even looking at the back of the box to find out you need a subscription. As casual as it would get are the casual MMORPGs who usually go with the F2P ones, but even then they would notice the price tag.
Also, I don't casual gamers are the bulk of the ones picking this up. Like not even looking at the back of the box to find out you need a subscription. As casual as it would get are the casual MMORPGs who usually go with the F2P ones, but even then they would notice the price tag.
hellsing006
New Member
They might depending on how much attention the game gets. But yeah, MMOs aren't really a casual gamer thing, I don't even think they really acknowledge the genre. F2P's are gaining popularity but they need a console if their ever going to get the attention of the casual gamer. Maybe the skill tree cut off is an attempt to get them but I don't see how successful that could possibly be.
I suppose it's one of those things that we can't really predict but will have to just wait and see how it plays out...
Ghost_of_Crash
New Member
There will be casual players in TESO early on, but they won't be there in abundance and there wouldn't be any super casual players (the ones that want it free. It'll mostly be hardcore players who don't mind paying for a quality game monthly. Once it hits F2P, the cap is gradually raised, and the casual players come in, that's the death knell for the game and the hardcore players who kept it afloat financially start to taper off.
To the original question, I see skill tree cut offs as a good thing to keep there from being OP players. If they were to be unlocked, I'd say it would be something to allow for monthly subscribers.
To the original question, I see skill tree cut offs as a good thing to keep there from being OP players. If they were to be unlocked, I'd say it would be something to allow for monthly subscribers.
dragoonblade
New Member
Wow that's grim. Usually I find that casual only have patience with an MMO a couple of weeks max before they get tired with all the effort that needs to be put in. They just can't get into the grinding and the commitment that an MMO requires. Maybe some will try it out, but I don't see it gaining a massive audience of casual fans.
jbepp
New Member
Most MMOs have systems like this, so I'm ok with that. IF they didn't have something like this, everyone could be everything, and that wouldn't be balanced at all. It also helps defining the roles for the different races.
True, but many casual fans put in 100+ hours on Skyrim, there'll be doing the same on TESO, probably double that, given that they can play with their friends too.
SpaceTiger
New Member
I wouldn't consider the ones putting 100+ hours into Skyrim as casuals exactly, but not diehard players either...or rather, at the minimum they're diehard fans who only had casual time to put into the game. Now I do see a few casual fans trying the game out of curiosity and becoming diehard fans, but casual fans who remain casual fans and put in more than 100+ (or double) is really overestimating the role of casual fans coming into a subscription based MMORPG.
It isn't Runescape, LOTR Online, or Free Realms where it's F2P out the gate and casual friendly.
It isn't Runescape, LOTR Online, or Free Realms where it's F2P out the gate and casual friendly.
Perhaps... then again what can even be defined as a casual player when it comes to Skyrim? 50+? 100+ hours? or are we talking about casual players when it comes to MMORPGs in general? Honestly it's quite an interesting topic, and I should like to see how it all plays out.
Stuck_X_Button
New Member
I don't think you can measure a casual player in Skyrim since the series isn't really a casual game. It can be played casually (and you'll just need to avoid whatever main storyline discussion pops up if you don't want spoilers) in the same way a casual game like Angry Birds or Candy Crush can be played hardcore by some people. Casual/hardcore is like a combination of time put into the game from the player's familiarity with the series/how familiar they need or should be with the series-end and the immersive nature, complexity, etc. from the game's end.
When it comes to MMORPGs it's all about the time put in. I like what SpaceTiger said about hardcore time and casual time. There are some casual MMORPGs out there that have very little lore and setting to explain the world and why it is the way it is (the company drops heavy lore and so on so that players can just jump in, you don't need to play regularly or hardcore to advance or make progress, and skills and stats are kept simple enough). We'll use something like AdventureQuest and Free Realms as an example of that.
Then you have hardcore MMORPGs that have a ton of lore behind them whether from literature, other games in the series, and so on. While casual players can play these MMORPGs, it's usually a steeper learning curve to get the gameplay mechanics, social elements, terminology/slang, and the lore is something that you actually end up being familiar with because it's deep. TESO, WOW, and EQ are examples of that. You're only going to get good with the time put into the game and you're only going to make significant advancement by...putting in the time.
I'd include LOTR Online in the hardcore MMORPG category. It's not all that steep a learning curve, but it has that you do need some time in the game to actually advance.
Most anime MMORPGs...I don't know where to put because they're F2P and thrive off of people buying this extra stuff to get a leg up. They vary across the board and really depend on what the gameplay approach is/what they're going for in the game.
When it comes to MMORPGs it's all about the time put in. I like what SpaceTiger said about hardcore time and casual time. There are some casual MMORPGs out there that have very little lore and setting to explain the world and why it is the way it is (the company drops heavy lore and so on so that players can just jump in, you don't need to play regularly or hardcore to advance or make progress, and skills and stats are kept simple enough). We'll use something like AdventureQuest and Free Realms as an example of that.
Then you have hardcore MMORPGs that have a ton of lore behind them whether from literature, other games in the series, and so on. While casual players can play these MMORPGs, it's usually a steeper learning curve to get the gameplay mechanics, social elements, terminology/slang, and the lore is something that you actually end up being familiar with because it's deep. TESO, WOW, and EQ are examples of that. You're only going to get good with the time put into the game and you're only going to make significant advancement by...putting in the time.
I'd include LOTR Online in the hardcore MMORPG category. It's not all that steep a learning curve, but it has that you do need some time in the game to actually advance.
Most anime MMORPGs...I don't know where to put because they're F2P and thrive off of people buying this extra stuff to get a leg up. They vary across the board and really depend on what the gameplay approach is/what they're going for in the game.
SpaceTiger
New Member
I have to give the applause on this. It's pretty much my thoughts on the difference between casual/diehards in MMORPGs and Elder Scrolls and MMORPGs that are specifically for that audience. Especially the part about lore.
The only anime MMORPG I ever liked was Uncharted Waters Online and that was because I liked the Uncharted Waters games on the SNES. The sea battles gave that game quite the learning curve.
The only anime MMORPG I ever liked was Uncharted Waters Online and that was because I liked the Uncharted Waters games on the SNES. The sea battles gave that game quite the learning curve.
This is all very true, I suppose whenever I consider "hardcore" I always think of played who play competitively and player who play 12 hours a day while casual players just play a couple hours per day. I suppose you're right though.
