Identity loss

[Pandsu]

What franchises do you feel have lost their identity over time?
What I mean by that is games that have lost their soul, their core, their identity. The thing that makes you know it's them, even if someone were to change a lot of its assets or characters around.

I'll give an example: The Mario Franchise after Mario 64.

Mario 64 wasn't just a step forward into 3D territory, it was also a step outside of pretty much that made the series what it was. Gone was the unique power-up system, replaced with generic health. Gone were the standard ways of movement, replaced by acrobatics, punching and kicking. Gone was the ability to breathe under water, even though navigating water in a 3D environment (especially at the time, where people weren't even used to that yet) is already a lot harder and slower than it was in 2D. Gone was the "journey", the linear progression through not just the individual levels but the world as a hole, replaced with an objective-based, repetitive collectathon.
And most of these things have continued on through most of the other Mario games released since then.

My point is this: If Mario 64, before anyone knew about it, was changed last-minute so there would be no Mario, no Lakitu, no Bowser, no Toad... basically no assets from the Mario franchise in it, noone would've noticed that it once was a Mario game. If you did the same with Mario 3 or World, or even the Land games though, people would undoubtedly notice it. Because that game would've still contained the soul of the franchise.
Even if you swapped Mario with a Bunny and mushrooms with salad and the fire flower with carrots, people would still see that the game takes the power-up system from the Mario games. It'd be like meeting a person you once loved 10 years ago, who had a horrible car accident that makes them look and sound completely different from how you remember them, but you still recognize them regardless.
As opposed to Mario 64 which is little more than an impostor dressing up like that person.


So, any more games you feel have lost their identity - or their soul if you will - over time?

 

[unwittyoneliner]

I don't think Mario as a franchise lost it's identity per se with Mario 64. Since then, there have been great non-2d Mario games (like Sunshine and Galaxy), and there have been plenty of 2d Mario games also - even Paper Mario, which is an amalgamation of both. I get what you're saying, but I think using Mario 64 as an example of a franchise losing its identity is off base. One of the first games that comes to mind (as far as games that let players' expectations down) is Resident Evil 5. That was a game that chucked out the eeriness of RE4 and it sort of became a by-the-numbers action game, except the enemies were gross looking. RE6 seemed to be better than RE5, but that eerie vibe that was perfected with RE4 hasn't returned to the series since then, in my opinion.

 

[Pandsu]

I disagree because all the 3D Mario games since then had just as little to do with Mario as 64 did. New Super Mario Bros and Super Mario 3D Land fixed that, but being a throwback was kinda their whole deal anyway. I'd like to see a big-scale 3D Mario game that uses the aforementioned features that, in my opinion, give Mario games their unique soul.

When it comes to RE I think it was actually RE4 that made the franchise lose its soul.
The game as a whole was great. But, just as with Mario 64, you could've easily replaced the recurring characters and the references to older RE games with other things and nobody would've said "Hey, this feels like RE!", just like nobody said that about Devil May Cry, even though that started as the RE4 prototype.

 

[Mudgee]

they should have killed Mario a long time ago. The staleness is painful.

 

[unwittyoneliner]

I disagree because all the 3D Mario games since then had just as little to do with Mario as 64 did. New Super Mario Bros and Super Mario 3D Land fixed that, but being a throwback was kinda their whole deal anyway. I'd like to see a big-scale 3D Mario game that uses the aforementioned features that, in my opinion, give Mario games their unique soul.

When it comes to RE I think it was actually RE4 that made the franchise lose its soul.
The game as a whole was great. But, just as with Mario 64, you could've easily replaced the recurring characters and the references to older RE games with other things and nobody would've said "Hey, this feels like RE!", just like nobody said that about Devil May Cry, even though that started as the RE4 prototype.

That's going in the way of innovation, though. I get what you're saying about Mario 64, but you have to keep in mind that it was 1996, and I'm sure they would have had at least a few of those classic Mario features/aesthetics if they had 1) more space to work with than what the cartridge offered and 2) more familiarity with 3D game development. It was the first game of its kind.

With RE, I disagree. One of the more noticeable differences between RE4 and previous games in the series was the behind-the-shoulder view point. There were plenty of RE-like mechanics and designs besides. Leon had a pistol to start with, you couldn't move while you shot which added to the tenseness, the enemies were well-designed and creepy, etc.

 

[Pandsu]

That's going in the way of innovation, though. I get what you're saying about Mario 64, but you have to keep in mind that it was 1996, and I'm sure they would have had at least a few of those classic Mario features/aesthetics if they had 1) more space to work with than what the cartridge offered and 2) more familiarity with 3D game development. It was the first game of its kind.

With RE, I disagree. One of the more noticeable differences between RE4 and previous games in the series was the behind-the-shoulder view point. There were plenty of RE-like mechanics and designs besides. Leon had a pistol to start with, you couldn't move while you shot which added to the tenseness, the enemies were well-designed and creepy, etc.

Technology doesn't really have anything to do with them neglecting the things that, in my opinion, matter. I mean it probably wouldn't have been that hard to have the power-up system in place, right?

RE4 wasn't as scary, wasn't even trying to be. It tried to deliver a new, different kind of Horror. Which would be fine in a new franchise.
It also didn't have as many adventure or puzzle elements and I felt like I was going forward too quickly and too linearly, instead of exploring one big, square environment like I would in the earlier ones. There also was like one jumpscare that worked, maybe two (and at the time I was actually quite easy to scare) and one genuinely creepy scene. That's it. Other than that it was just an action game with a horror-like setting.

And really, if you look at it objectively, how are the enemies in RE5 less creepy than the ones in RE4?
The biggest problem with RE5, for me, was the forced coop that took you out of the experience all the freaking time because you had to babysit some stupid AI or play with someone else which automatically distracts you from anything that could scare you, anyway. And the extremely low difficulty. Other than that it really wasn't THAT much worse than RE4, if looking at it objectively. Those 1-2 jumpscares and the 1 creepy part were reduced to none, even though they promised to make it really creepy at the end (probably was changed when the new director came in), but other than that I really can't objectively say it did things an awful lot differently.
It was really just the difficulty. I struggle with the hardest difficulty in RE4 but RE5, despite me only renting it for a week and playing single player with stupid AI and it being one of the first games I played on my PS3 I platinum'd it in just a few days. And I never platinum anything. It was just so easy to do in this one...

 

[amazingone]

I think Mario has definitely lost its way. I mean Mario Galaxies? Please. So have the Mario Kart games. Everything after Mario Kart 64 has been a big disappointment. Kart for SNES and 64 were classics. Madden has definitely lost its identity. I wonder if part of EA's problem with their football series is that they lost their main competitor which was 2k sports. Just look at the way EA's stock has tumbled over the past 5 years or so. I feel like MLB the show has lost its identity. That game was great araound 2009 - 2010 but the recent releases have paled in comparison.

 

[Stigmatic Gamer]

I feel that Halo has lost its identity. Many Halo fans argue over this point and if there happens to be any people here that disagree with me then i apologize in advance. To me the game has moved from a skilled based community game to a game that rewards those that no nothing to support their team and those who are in it for themselves.

I feel that Bungie is going to change these things with Destiny.

 

[corporatenoun]

I would disagree completely on Mario. The power up system didn't actually disappear at all, most of the enemies and objects interacted the same way (kill the goomba by jumping on them, pop the block with your head, don't stand under the thwomps), and the coin collection system was (relatively) unchanged. If anything I feel they introduced the 3D element into the Mario world without losing any of what made it so fun to play in the first place.

As for a game that has lost its identity over time, my vote is definitely Call of Duty. The shift in direction from history-based to crazy terrorist plots and zombie apocalypses left a lot of appeal behind. That's not to say the new direction isn't better off for the game (there's only so much WWII to go around), but I love the feel of the older shooters like Call of Duty and Medal of Honor.

 

[amazingone]

Inter-thread spin: do you feel as though you are losing your identity with your video game addiction? That's sort of what I thought that this thread would be about before I actually clicked it. I used to play games for 6 to 8 hours a day and I feel like I was losing my identity at that point in time because I was so wrapped up in gaming. I pretty much ditched the real world for a fantasy world.